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National Guard troops deployed to Portland earlier this month

'They're doing it exactly as they were trained to do'

Tuesday's Final Word

On Monday's The 11th Hour, MSNBC host Stephanie Ruhle and never-Trumper Mark McKinnon seemed to cheer for Democrats to aggressively gerrymander states like California against Republicans as both used the provocative expression "bring a gun to a knife fight" to describe the strategy. The poor choice of words comes at a time when one prominent conservative was just recently shot to death, and there have been multiple shooting attacks against immigration agents who are frequently demonized by Democrats. Before bringing up redistricting, the two discussed the surprisingly close New Jersey governor's election. McKinnon predicted that Democrats would benefit from the budget battle, and declared that they "should" benefit as he claimed that Republicans are at fault: ...my feeling is, at this point is that there is a sense that the government shutdown is the response -- people are blaming Republicans because they should. Republicans are in charge. They're in charge of the White House -- they're in charge of Congress -- they're in charge of the Senate. At the end of the day, they've reached a conclusion that the people who have the keys to the car are the ones responsible. So I think that that is largely going to play out over the course -- even though some of these elections have tightened up, my sense is that the Democrats are going to prevail. Ruhle then segued to the California ballot initiative that would aggressively gerrymander California's congressional districts to favor Democrats to counter Republicans redrawing Texas as she posed: "But, in California, are we going to finally find out whether redistricting is a winning issue?" McKinnon suggested that Democrats are justified in pushing the new map and employed some questionable wording as he declared: Yes, we will. It's definitely a referendum on redistricting, and, you know, it's ironic, Stephanie, because, you know, for so long, a lot of complaints among Democratic strategists have been -- and voters, too -- is that Democrats don't fight back hard enough. You know, the old maxim that when, you know, "They go high, we go low -- (flubbing and then correcting it) when they go low, we go high." So, and a lot of Democrats saying, "We should go low," and so this is -- this is kind of catching up with the Republicans on, you know, the fact that politics ain't beanbag, and if -- if they're -- we're going to -- we're going to bring a gun to the knife fight this time. Ruhle then brought up the Republican push in Indiana to gain another seat or two with redistricting: Okay, well, take me to Indiana because there you've got Governor Mike Braun. He's now calling a special session to redistrict his state after he got pressure from the White House. And then you've got House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. He went to Illinois to talk to Democrats there about doing the same thing. Where does this redistricting tit for tat end? Is it tit for tat? Or is it, "Democrats are finally bringing a gun to a knife fight"? Transcript follows: MSNBC's The 11th Hour October 27, 2025 11:50 p.m. Eastern STEPHANIE RUHLE: Let's start with New Jersey, where the gubernatorial race is very close. What are you looking at there? MARK McKINNON, EX-ADVISOR TO GEORGE W. BUSH & JOHN McCAIN: Well, I, I, you know, it's typically a Democratic state, and the fact that it even got close should be a warning sign for Democrats, but I do think that the three states that will be holding elections are going to be real bellwethers, and we're going to get -- this is going to be a signal for all of us. Everybody is trying to read the tea leaves -- read polling which is largely inaccurate as we know from recent history. But, whatever happens, it's going to be a real signal for midterms. And -- but my -- my -- my feeling is, at this point is that there is a sense that the government shutdown is the response -- people are blaming Republicans because they should. Republicans are in charge. They're in charge of the White House -- they're in charge of Congress -- they're in charge of the Senate. At the end of the day, they've reached a conclusion that the people who have the keys to the car are the ones responsible. So I think that that is largely going to play out over the course -- even though some of these elections have tightened up, my sense is that the Democrats are going to prevail. RUHLE: Yeah, reminder, the House isn't even at work while TSA workers are going to work and receiving food from food banks. But, in California, are we going to finally find out whether redistricting is a winning issue? McKINNON: Yes, we will. It's definitely a referendum on redistricting, and, you know, it's ironic, Stephanie, because, you know, for so long, a lot of complaints among Democratic strategists have been -- and voters, too -- is that Democrats don't fight back hard enough. You know, the old maxim that when, you know, "They go high, we go low -- (flubbing and then correcting it) when they go low, we go high." So, and a lot of Democrats saying, "We should go low," and so this is -- this is kind of catching up with the Republicans on, you know, the fact that politics ain't beanbag, and if -- if they're -- we're going to -- we're going to bring a gun to the knife fight this time. RUHLE: Woof. Okay, well, take me to Indiana because there you've got Governor Mike Braun. He's now calling a special session to redistrict his state after he got pressure from the White House. And then you've got House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. He went to Illinois to talk to Democrats there about doing the same thing. Where does this redistricting tit for tat end? Is it tit for tat? Or is it, "Democrats are finally bringing a gun to a knife fight"? McKINNON: Yeah, well, Democrats are. And it's not going to end until every possibility has been exhausted because that's clearly what Republicans are going to do. ...