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Podcast Transcript June 27, 2025: Effective allyship in action + Belgian seniors hit the club in joyful resistance
Episode Description:
In this week’s episode of The Optimist Daily’s Weekly Round-up, Arielle and Karissa revisit Part II of our popular 2020 series on allyship—this time diving into what effective allyship really looks like in practice. If you missed Part I on performative allyship, you can read it here!
They explore actionable ways to show up for marginalized communities with intention and consistency—whether that means unlearning internal biases, financially supporting underrepresented creators, or stepping back to let others lead.
Then, the conversation shifts to a solution that proves joy knows no age limit: Belgium’s Papy Booom nonprofit is helping seniors fight loneliness with unforgettable nightclub outings.
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Transcript:
Karissa:
Hello and welcome to The Optimist Daily’s Weekly Round-up. I’m Karissa.
Arielle:
And I’m Arielle, and we’re working hard to put solutions in view and optimism in movement.
Karissa:
Welcome back to the podcast. We’re here to share the great solutions from The Optimist Daily this week, and if you want all of these solutions and more straight to your inbox, make sure to subscribe to our free daily newsletter.
Arielle:
If this is the only way that you’re hearing about all of these solutions and you want more, check us out on Instagram, Pinterest. We’re also on Bluesky, X. You can find us at @optimistdaily on everything except for X—on there, we’re @OdeToOptimism. Also, we just want to shout out all our fellow optimists who already support us.
Karissa:
And if you’re looking to support The Optimist Daily’s mission of putting optimism out into the world, you can click on the link in the show notes to find out how. You can also just simply support us by sharing the podcast. So, lots of ways to get some optimism out there.
Arielle:
I guess, without further ado, we should get into the episode. So Karissa, how was your week?
Karissa:
It’s been an OK week, honestly. But how are things going over there in Amsterdam?
Arielle:
Things are good. I don’t really have anything to complain about in my personal life, but there is a lot going on in the world. So on that note, do you have an “I’m an optimist, but…”?
Karissa:
ICE actions and families just kind of being torn apart, and crazy political sense from our leaders, and just a lot of messiness. Seeing all of this going on has just really been weighing heavy.
Arielle:
Mmm.
Karissa:
In California, the backbone of our entire state is immigrants. There’s been a lot of discussion about this, which—I’m glad that so many people are standing up for our fellow community members.
Arielle:
Yeah, I’m going to have to piggyback on that one. All of these immigrant families are not just part of the immigrant community, but are part of the greater community as a whole, as you said. Yeah, a lot of the backbone of California—and the states in general—are made up of immigrant families. They do contribute to the entire tapestry. They’re all a part of the United States’ culture.
Karissa:
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, our diversity makes us stronger and is what really makes our country great. I think it’s something you were wanting to talk about today more in your solution, right?
Arielle:
Yeah, I wanted to dive into something really important, and it’s actually something that we originally published back in 2020. But it feels more necessary than ever to bring it back. And as you said, Karissa, it’s hard to scroll through the headlines without feeling overwhelmed. We’re trying to balance out all of that negativity with something a little bit more hopeful.
Well, that’s why I wanted to talk about allyship. Today, we’re going to revisit a two-part series on allyship. If you caught Part 1, you’ll remember that it’s about performative allyship, which are those well-meaning but ultimately kind of hollow gestures that don’t create real change.
Karissa:
Yeah, exactly. It’s Pride Month, and so brands will slap a rainbow logo on their profile for June—although this year I feel like less people are doing that—and that’s like the bare minimum. So… but they don’t actually do anything to support their LGBTQ+ employees or donate to causes that matter. So I mean, you’re really not doing much just by slapping the rainbow on something.
Arielle:
Yeah, exactly. And that’s what the performative allyship is about—so, Part 1. So I’ll dig deeper into that—if you hadn’t had a chance to read it, it’ll be linked in the show notes. But today, we’re going to dig into what effective allyship looks like. And that’s what Part 2 is about.
Yeah, effective allyship isn’t about perfection. It’s about consistency. It’s about doing the work, even when it’s uncomfortable or inconvenient.
Karissa:
Yeah. So I guess we can talk a little bit more about defining what we mean by “ally.”
Arielle:
An ally is someone who advocates for the inclusion and equal representation of marginalised communities—whether that’s LGBTQ+ folks, immigrants, people of colour, people with disabilities, or any group that’s pushed to the margin. Allyship isn’t an identity you put on and call it a day. It is a continuous practice.
Karissa:
And it’s not just reserved for the super privileged, either. Privilege is definitely intersectional, so depending on your context, anyone can practise allyship in some way. Which I think is so important to distinguish—because I know I’ve had a conversation with folks before, and they’re like, “Well, I grew up having a hard life and stuff, so that’s why I can’t support X or Y or Z,” and it’s just like—there’s so many ways that you have privilege.
Arielle:
Yeah. And some have more than others, but it is important to be able to identify where you can be of help.
And what does effective allyship look like in action? Jess Mally, who co-founded the DEI agency Belovd, defined allyship as “an active, consistent, and arduous practice of unlearning and reevaluating.” The word arduous says a lot. It definitely is a process, and it’s going to be difficult sometimes.
Karissa:
Absolutely. Can we go through a few signs that will show you you’re on the right track to being an effective ally?
Arielle:
Yeah, of course. First up, you’re doing the internal work. That means questioning your own biases, reflecting on where they came from, and being open to learning and unlearning all the time.
Karissa:
I guess it would be like if you catch yourself making a snap judgment about someone based on their accent or the way they dress, you pause and unpack that.
Arielle:
Yeah. It’s also important to not be too hard on yourself if you find yourself thinking something unfair about someone, or some event, or whatever. There’s a saying that goes: your first thought is what you’ve been conditioned to think through societal influences and ingrained biases—but how you respond to that thought is what truly reflects your character and values.
Karissa:
Yeah, totally.
Arielle:
Next, if you’re able, you financially support marginalized communities. That could mean donating to mutual aid funds, supporting small businesses run by immigrants, trans folks, or disabled artists, or subscribing to newsletters and platforms created by people from underrepresented backgrounds. For instance, the Transgender Law Center, United We Dream, or RAICES Texas are all doing incredible work right now.
Karissa:
And if you can learn from someone’s content just on social media or through workshops, maybe see if they have a Patreon or Venmo and show your support that way.
Arielle:
That’s a great idea, Karissa.
Now the next one’s tough but crucial. It’s calling out harmful language or behavior—especially in your own circles, whether it’s at a family dinner or a group chat. It’s especially hard when you’re calling out people that you care about. Yeah. And it’s also not just about calling people out—it can be about calling them in. So inviting folks into a conversation where they can learn and grow without feeling attacked. And that takes practice.
Karissa:
Yeah, definitely. It’s something I deal with a lot in my family and extended family, and some of my family members are really hard to be able to, like, call into the conversation. Allyship is certainly political, because supporting policies that protect marginalized communities—and opposing those that cause harm—is part of the job. So that includes speaking out against things like family separation, as you were talking about earlier, and anti-trans legislation or the criminalization of homelessness.
Arielle:
It’s also about voting, showing up at city council meetings, contacting representatives. Right now, for example, the ACLU is fighting multiple anti-immigration bills in Florida and Texas. So you can support their efforts, sign petitions, and donate if you can. Finally: make space—and that’s literally and figuratively. Step back so others can step forward, and amplify marginalized voices instead of speaking over them.
And as I said before, it won’t always be comfortable. You’ll mess up—because we all do. But if you keep showing up with humility and a willingness to learn, then that’s what counts.
Karissa:
Well, this is all just such a great reminder to recommit to allyship—not just during Pride Month, which is coming to an end pretty soon in this next week, and not just when there’s a hashtag trending, but every day.
Arielle:
If you’re still listening, thank you for tuning into this conversation, because I know it can get uncomfortable. And even though it’s a bit of a rerun, we do hope it inspires you to keep learning, and keep showing up, and keep moving forward.
Karissa:
Love this reminder. And we should all practice allyship. But if you’re feeling a little helpless in how you can do something, this is a great step to continue practicing.
Arielle:
Yeah, and a great resource—because it can be confusing and it can be intimidating. People don’t want to make mistakes. They don’t want to say the wrong thing, even if their heart is in the right place. So it’s nice to just have a little bit of a guide to see if you’re on the right track, which is exactly what this article is all about.
But I think you have something new for us?
Karissa:
I do! So I have a new solution we shared this week, and honestly, it just made me smile. It’s one of my most favorite solutions we’ve written about in a while. I love it so much. And a common theme that I see a lot of people discussing and talking about is how joy is a form of resistance. And this kind of joy is going across the generations.
So let me just get into the title, which is called: Dancing into a new phase of life: how nightclub outings help older adults fight loneliness.
Arielle:
(laughs) So fun.
Karissa:
Let me first set the scene for you, Arielle—and listeners. It was after midnight at Mirano, one of Brussels’ iconic nightclubs. As the bass pulsed through the air, red lights swept across the floor, and young partygoers sipped drinks under the spinning disco ball. But this night was different, because among the crowd in crop tops and sneakers was a group dressed in suits, sequins, and smiles—and they were all seniors from nearby retirement homes who were dancing well into the early hours.
Arielle:
Talk about an unforgettable night!
Karissa:
Yeah. And as attending 99-year-old Guillaume said, “Everyone is happy because we’re doing something different.”
Arielle:
Oh my gosh—99 years old!
Karissa:
Yeah, crazy. So Guillaume is a retired carpenter, and he hadn’t been clubbing in decades. But with daily exercise keeping him agile, he danced past 2:00 AM, grooving to Rihanna. And he was part of this group of 16 retirement home residents brought out by Papy Booom, a Belgian nonprofit tackling senior loneliness with creativity and flair.
Arielle:
Well, taking seniors to the club is certainly something creative. So what’s the deal with this nonprofit, Papy Booom?
Karissa:
Founded by 37-year-old Youssef Kaddar, Papy Booom began with traditional outings like seaside trips and restaurant meals. But these events started to feel pretty routine, and Kaddar wondered: would something a little bolder resonate?
And since 2023, Papy Booom has hosted five nightclub evenings, along with hot air balloon rides, video game nights, and even day raves. Kaddar says, “We are in a nursing home, but life doesn’t stop. It’s a new life that’s going to start.”
Arielle:
What a fun and fresh take. I think we usually think of nursing homes providing entertainment inside their own facilities, but I love this idea of getting seniors out and mingling in different environments. And a nightclub outing is definitely something unique.
Karissa:
And this fresh take on aging has proven more than just fun. It helps bridge generations—something the World Health Organization deems vital for healthy aging. It also fights the mental and emotional toll of isolation, because globally, about one in four older adults experiences social isolation, according to the WHO.
“We are living longer, but not healthier and not more connected,” says Europe Director Hans Henri P. Kluge. It’s a problem we’ve investigated solutions for many times in The Optimist Daily, and I really love all the different ideas people have had—like community grandmother benches where you can go to talk about your problems (they serve as, like, therapists), and also housing that combines college-aged people and older adults. But I have to say, this is definitely something pretty different. And I just love it.
Arielle:
So what were the highlights of this recent outing to Mirano you were talking about? Because I need to know some more details about this wild night.
Karissa:
Yeah! The evening began with dinner at 5:30 PM, where many women had their hair and makeup done. After dessert—crêpes at a local restaurant—a small, impromptu dance party broke out already.
Arielle:
OK, this sounds like such a fun pregame.
Karissa:
Yeah, exactly. By 11:00 PM, the group had entered the mirrored corridors of Mirano—a nightlife staple since the 1980s—and waiters delivered champagne with sparkler flares, and the dance floor filled with residents and clubgoers alike. Mirano and other venues participating in this program have donated the club space for these events, while Papy Booom—supported by public funds and private donations—covered other costs, like the crêpes for the pregame and such.
Arielle:
Sounds like a true night out. Did they have to show their IDs at the door? (laughs)
Karissa:
(laughs) I have no clue, but it sounds like these spirited seniors are much younger at heart than the age on those IDs.
Arielle:
Aging might not be so bad if this is the future in seniority that we have to look forward to.
Karissa:
Yeah, absolutely.
Arielle:
I am curious, though—how did the club and Papy Booom properly accommodate these special guests? I mean, with fragile hips and… it’s kind of a loud, dark, and crowded venue, I can imagine there may have been some potential problems there.
Karissa:
There were a few unavoidable challenges that come with being older and being at the club. Some residents had to remove hearing aids due to the bass, and some others used canes or needed help on the dark staircase to the bathroom. And one woman even briefly lost consciousness after drinking a little too much and was taken to the hospital overnight. But Kaddar noted it was the first such incident in many outings. She was feeling better the next day.
Arielle:
Oh wow, that’s a little scary—but certainly something that might be a risk at any age, because anyone can get majorly intoxicated.
Karissa:
Regardless of these challenges, the benefits were undeniable. The director of social life, Nathalie Lejeune—who is the director of more than 60 retirement homes in Belgium, France, and Luxembourg—said, “Each time, they feel younger.”
Arielle:
I hope they felt as young as those twenty-somethings out on the dance floor.
Karissa:
Yeah, me too. Those youngsters on the floor were of course surprised to see a group of octogenarians tearing up the floor, but that surprise quickly turned into admiration. Twenty-year-old nightclub-goer Emily said, “It creates a good atmosphere in the nightclub,” and another guest, a 24-year-old named Danielle, was equally impressed and said, “I don’t know if I would be able to do that at their age.”
Arielle:
Yeah, I am also impressed. They are really showing that the fun doesn’t have to stop, no matter how old you are.
Karissa:
And one of the senior revelers, 85-year-old Thérèse, admitted that she hadn’t been much of a partygoer in her youth. She’s a classical music lover and former yoga teacher, and she joined to escape the retirement home routine. She said, “It’s just about the possibility of being in contact—and not just talking to old people.”
Arielle:
Yeah, that makes so much sense. Shaking things up and hitting the town with your friends and meeting some new people is a great experience, no matter how old you are.
Karissa:
Yeah, absolutely. And this social spark is really what Kaddar hopes to ignite the most. He calls it preventing a fading of spirit that often comes with age.
Arielle:
Well, it certainly sounds like a new model for connection that will perhaps make its way out of Brussels and into other places. I mean, Brussels is right there for me, so I hope Amsterdam will start bringing out their seniors as well.
Karissa:
I mean, as the population ages and the proportion of residents over 85 continues to climb in places like Brussels, programs like Papy Booom offer a glimpse at what aging joyfully and inclusively could look like. People are living longer, and this article makes it clear that life—or your clubbing days—doesn’t just have to stop because you’re old. So I think this was such an interesting and fun solution.
Arielle:
Yeah, and uh, Youssef Kaddar, the guy who started Papy Booom, is definitely an ally to people of an older generation. Yeah, because there’s also ageism, and older people can often be pushed to the margins as well. Nice. I’m happy that we have a through-thread through our solutions this week.
Karissa:
Totally. Exactly. Allyship comes in so many different ways.
Arielle:
We also have a lot of other solutions that you can check out on our website, optimistdaily.com, and they include—
Karissa:
Could your breath reveal who you are—and how you feel? Researchers say yes.
MPs vote to decriminalize abortion in England and Wales in a historic victory for women’s rights.
How researchers are turning outdated phones into eco-friendly mini data centres.
And Brewing better health: Harvard study explains what coffee has to do with aging well.
What else do we—
Arielle:
—have?
New rules allow thousands more Australians to donate plasma, regardless of sexuality.
How Finland’s giant sand battery is storing clean energy (and cutting emissions by 70 percent).
And Decriminalizing rough sleeping: a new chapter in compassion and justice.
We also have How to be an ally Part I: performative allyship, which we mentioned at the top, and the one we just discussed in this episode: How to be an ally Part II: effective allyship.
Karissa:
Well, Arielle, it was great to be here with you and share these solutions.
Arielle:
Aww.
Karissa:
Definitely feeling more optimistic.
Arielle:
Yeah, me too. We should mention that next week we’re not going to have an episode coming out because it is July 4th. So we wish everyone a safe and happy, hopeful, and reflective Independence Day celebration.
Karissa:
Yeah, over here in the States. We’re looking forward to sharing some more solutions, and in the meantime, of course, we have the website—so check it out if you need a dose of good news.
Arielle:
Until next time.
Both:
Bye!The post Podcast Transcript June 27, 2025: Effective allyship in action + Belgian seniors hit the club in joyful resistance first appeared on The Optimist Daily: Making Solutions the News.
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