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CNN's Jake Tapper Tries to Trip Speaker Johnson on Comey Indictment, Gets WRECKED
The indictment of Resistance FBI Director James Comey is clearly the top news story of this weekend’s cycle. As Jake Tapper’s interview of Speaker Mike Johnson on CNN’s State of the Union demonstrates, the legacy media do not quite yet have a handle on this story.
Watch as Tapper tries to catch Johnson on the Comey indictment and gets absolutely shut down (click “expand” to view transcript):
WATCH: Speaker Johnson WRECKS Jake Tapper's attempted gotchas over the Comey indictment. The legacy media are struggling to put a weaponization frame on this story after years of excusing and/or outright omitting Obama/Biden excesses pic.twitter.com/b4TbPrY5hw
— Jorge Bonilla (@BonillaJL) September 28, 2025
JAKE TAPPER: Let's turn to the other big subject in the news here having to do with the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey. Just looking at the principle at stake here, if you can remove Comey and Trump out of the equation, as a constitutional attorney and the speaker of the House of Representatives, do you believe it's acceptable for any president to publicly or privately instruct their attorney general to prosecute a political opponent and go as far as firing a U.S. attorney if they don't bring charges because they don't think the case is strong enough?
JOHNSON: I'm glad you brought up the principle. That is exactly what's at issue here. James Comey lied to Congress, OK? He took an oath. He said things to Congress that were simply not true. It's called perjury. A grand jury that is not -- a nonpartisan, nonbiased grand jury that that was assembled looked at the charges, and they agreed, they voted to bring an indictment of James Comey, not President Trump, not the DoJ, but a grand jury. That's how our system works. It's a very important principle for us to apply that everybody has to subscribe to the law, even a former FBI director. And he has lots to answer for. There are many things that he could have been indicted for, but the statute of limitations ran out on so many of those matters. Not here. Perjury is important. You can't -- especially if you're a high official, appointed or elected official, you cannot raise your hand, take an oath and lie to Congress. And that's an important principle, a principle, Jake, for us to advance.
TAPPER: I mean, I hear what you're saying, but you didn't answer the part about President Trump putting it all out there for everyone to see on TRUTH Social. After pushing out the U.S. attorney, this conservative, Erik Siebert, he wrote to Pam Bondi, the attorney general: "Nothing's being done about Comey, Schiff, and Letitia James, even though they're all guilty as hell." The president demanded "Justice must be served now." He mentioned Lindsey Halligan, who is now the acting U.S. attorney. And Bondi clearly got the message. She appointed Halligan U.S. attorney, despite the fact she has no prosecutorial experience. A few days later, Halligan indicted Comey. I mean, this looks like it was directed by the president. As you know, indictments are not convictions. Indictments have to do with a grand jury saying whether or not a case can be brought. It's not a finding of guilt. The defense isn't even allowed to present a case there. Don't you have any qualms about the -- any president telling an attorney general, go after these three political opponents?
JOHNSON: I will take issue with that. I don't think that's what he did. But what I have cause with, Jake, is the total and utter weaponization of the Department of Justice. And Comey was a primary person responsible for that. They quite literally for four years under the Biden administration turned the entire apparatus of our judicial system against one person. His name is Donald Trump. There's never been a political figure in the history of the world who was so maligned and attacked, certainly not using the legal system of his country to go after him in the way that they did, every way possible. You and I would need three hours of a program to go through all the ways that they did that. They weaponized the DoJ. And so that's what Comey ultimately was the leader of and responsible for. He was one of the primary persons who did that. And I think, if he lied to Congress about what he knew and when he knew it, then that is a matter that transcends politics. I think it -- he has to be tried for that. And I expect that the jury in that case will determine that that's exactly what he did.
Tapper’s gotcha hinges on the fact that Trump expressed himself on Truth Social. We go back to the fictitious “norms” standard. In this case, the media are mad that Trump transparently calls for prosecutions, as opposed to the traditional method of pressuring attorneys general by grumbling about it to anyone within earshot and then having aides leak it to the media.
Johnson doesn’t take the bait. Instead, he reminds Tapper that a grand jury decided on these charges. This is the process, after all. And then a jury has to find Comey guilty of those charges.
Tapper takes another pass on the indictment, and then gets schooled again on the ways in which Comey actually weaponized the government. This continued for several more minutes. An attempted J6 gotcha led Johnson to respond with the 274 federal agents onsite, which Tapper tried to rebut.
The interview ended with a salty aside about the Epstein files, a tacit admission of inability to get anywhere on the various lines of questioning thrown at Johnson by Tapper. The Comey indictment is proving to be extremely uncomfortable to cover for the legacy media as they are faced with such inconvenient things as facts and history.
Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the aforementioned interview as aired on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday, September 28th, 2025:
JAKE TAPPER: Joining us now, House Speaker Mike Johnson, Republican of Louisiana. Mr. Speaker, good to see you. Let's start with the shutdown talks. A few days ago, President Trump rejected even meeting with Democratic leaders, reportedly at the urging of you and the Senate majority leader, John Thune. What changed?
MIKE JOHNSON: Well, I had a long talk with the president yesterday, Jake, and he feels the same way that I do about this. He's always open to discussion, but he wants to operate in good faith. So he decided to bring us all in. He wants to talk with Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and just try to convince them to follow common sense and do what's right by the American people. Jake, it's important to point out the only thing we are trying to do is buy a little time. The appropriators in both parties have been working very diligently over the last many weeks to work through the appropriations process. As you know, the law requires us to pass 12 separate appropriations bills and to be good stewards of American taxpayers' dollars. But that hasn't happened. It usually doesn't happen in Washington. Everything gets pushed to the end of the year, right before Christmas, and there's a giant omnibus spending bill. Since I became speaker, I have been trying to force back the muscle memory to force Congress to do its work. And we're doing it. Jake, I'm delighted to tell you, in a bipartisan fashion, the appropriators have worked through 12 separate appropriations bills in the House committee. Three are passed off the floor in the House. Three passed off the Senate floor. Those bills don't match up exactly, so there's a conference committee between two chambers working, as they're supposed to, for the first time since 2019. But here's the problem. We have run out of clock, because the end of the -- September 30 is the end of the fiscal year. So what we did was a simple, clean continuing resolution. It's 24 pages in length. All it does is keep the government open...
TAPPER: Right.
JOHNSON: ... so appropriators can continue to do this work together, bipartisan. Chuck Schumer came back with a long laundry list of partisan demands that don't fit into this process, and he's going to try to shut the government down. The president wants to talk with him about that and say, please, don't do that.
TAPPER: So, at this meeting tomorrow, is President Trump looking to make a deal, or is it going to be like when Michael Corleone met Senator Geary, my offer is this, nothing?
JOHNSON: Well, look, we will have to see, but I can tell you where his head and his heart are. He wants to do right by the people. He does not want the Democrats to hold up troops' pay, the people who serve in the military. They don't get paid during a shutdown. He doesn't want WIC funding, Women, Infants and Children nutrition program being held up. He doesn't want telehealth and mental health and FEMA services to be stopped. That's what Chuck Schumer is holding hostage. Why? So that he can add $1.5 trillion in new spending at a time when we're simply just trying to keep the government going for seven weeks, so we can have those debates.
TAPPER: I want...
JOHNSON: It's wrong. He also wants to, by the way -- what Chuck Schumer is demanding in exchange for all those good things I just listed, he wants to reinstate free health care for illegal aliens paid by American taxpayers. We are not doing that. We can't do that. That's just one of the crazy things he's requesting.
TAPPER: Well, I think he would take issue with that. Here is what House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said on CNN Friday night about what he says Democrats are asking for, which is the continuity, the continuing of the Obamacare subsidies being extended to American citizens only to prevent more than a million of those Americans joining the ranks of the uninsured. I'd like to hear your response. This is what Jeffries said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAKEEM JEFFRIES: And all we're saying is, let's find a path forward to actually fix the health care system that Republicans have broken for the good of everyone. They dropped this reckless partisan bill that continues to gut the health care of the American people, and it went down in flames. And so their bill is dead on arrival
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Is that demand for the -- continuing the Obamacare subsidies, is that even on the table tomorrow?
JOHNSON: Look, that statement by my friend Hakeem is absolutely absurd. That there is nothing partisan about this continuing resolution, nothing. We didn't add a single partisan priority or policy rider at all. We're operating completely in good faith to give more time. The only thing that would gut health care, using his own phraseology there, is if we took Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer's demand here, because they want to cut $50 billion from rural hospitals. That's the new fund that we added in the Big Beautiful Bill, the working families tax cuts that we passed just a couple months ago. They want to gut that. They also want to hold up all this funding that I listed. I mean, the WIC program is something that we all champion for women, infants and children, nutrition. That would be held up. So, it's exactly the opposite of what Hakeem is talking about. The Obamacare subsidies is a policy debate that has to be determined by the end of the year, December 31 -- December 30, not, not right now, while we're simply trying to keep the government open so we can have all these debates.
TAPPER: So, just as a point of fact, it's against the law for noncitizens to get those subsidies. And if they expire, Americans' premiums could jump as much as 75 percent, some experts say, and consumers could start viewing those higher premiums as soon as October. Are you not worried at all that those people might blame Republicans for those health care costs, for the insurance costs going up?
JOHNSON: No, they're not being truthful about that, Jake. The program doesn't expire until the end of December, so we have time to have all those discussions and debates. But, yes, it is illegal for illegal aliens to receive health care paid for by hardworking American taxpayers. But they're making the demand to change that. They want to add that back in. That's one of Chuck Schumer's primary demands to keep the government open, and we're not going to do that. The American people didn't vote for us to do that. We're trying to clean up the system. So what they're demanding, they know is outrageous. They know it's far beyond the pale. And, look, I challenge anybody listening to us, Jake, go pull this up. You will see there is nothing partisan in what we have passed and presented to the Senate. Chuck Schumer is doing this for one reason. He is trying to get cover from the far left base of his party because they have been hammering him for not fighting Trump. So he's going to try to show that he's fighting Trump, but he has absolutely no logical basis for doing so here.
TAPPER: So, just to be clear, there's not going to be any negotiation at this meeting? This is just going to be you and Thune and Trump telling Jeffries and Schumer, we're not giving you anything?
JOHNSON: Look, I'm not going to get in front of the president and tell you what he will do, but I have talked with him a couple of times even yesterday. And I'm telling you where his head is. He wants to bring in the leaders to come in and act like leaders and do the right thing for the American people. It's fine to have partisan debates and squabbles, but you don't hold the people hostage for their services to allow yourself political cover. And that's what Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries are doing right now.
TAPPER: Let's turn to the other big subject in the news here having to do with the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey. Just looking at the principle at stake here, if you can remove Comey and Trump out of the equation, as a constitutional attorney and the speaker of the House of Representatives, do you believe it's acceptable for any president to publicly or privately instruct their attorney general to prosecute a political opponent and go as far as firing a U.S. attorney if they don't bring charges because they don't think the case is strong enough?
JOHNSON: I'm glad you brought up the principle. That is exactly what's at issue here. James Comey lied to Congress, OK? He took an oath. He said things to Congress that were simply not true. It's called perjury. A grand jury that is not -- a nonpartisan, nonbiased grand jury that that was assembled looked at the charges, and they agreed, they voted to bring an indictment of James Comey, not President Trump, not the DoJ, but a grand jury. That's how our system works. It's a very important principle for us to apply that everybody has to subscribe to the law, even a former FBI director. And he has lots to answer for. There are many things that he could have been indicted for, but the statute of limitations ran out on so many of those matters. Not here. Perjury is important. You can't -- especially if you're a high official, appointed or elected official, you cannot raise your hand, take an oath and lie to Congress. And that's an important principle, a principle, Jake, for us to advance.
TAPPER: I mean, I hear what you're saying, but you didn't answer the part about President Trump putting it all out there for everyone to see on TRUTH Social. After pushing out the U.S. attorney, this conservative, Erik Siebert, he wrote to Pam Bondi, the attorney general: "Nothing's being done about Comey, Schiff, and Letitia James, even though they're all guilty as hell." The president demanded "Justice must be served now." He mentioned Lindsey Halligan, who is now the acting U.S. attorney. And Bondi clearly got the message. She appointed Halligan U.S. attorney, despite the fact she has no prosecutorial experience. A few days later, Halligan indicted Comey. I mean, this looks like it was directed by the president. As you know, indictments are not convictions. Indictments have to do with a grand jury saying whether or not a case can be brought. It's not a finding of guilt. The defense isn't even allowed to present a case there. Don't you have any qualms about the -- any president telling an attorney general, go after these three political opponents?
JOHNSON: I will take issue with that. I don't think that's what he did. But what I have cause with Jake is the total and utter weaponization of the Department of Justice. And Comey was a primary person responsible for that. They quite literally for four years under the Biden administration turned the entire apparatus of our judicial system against one person. His name is Donald Trump. There's never been a political figure in the history of the world who was so maligned and attacked, certainly not using the legal system of his country to go after him in the way that they did, every way possible. You and I would need three hours of a program to go through all the ways that they did that. They weaponized the DoJ. And so that's what Comey ultimately was the leader of and responsible for. He was one of the primary persons who did that. And I think, if he lied to Congress about what he knew and when he knew it, then that is a matter that transcends politics. I think it -- he has to be tried for that. And I expect that the jury in that case will determine that that's exactly what he did.
TAPPER: Well, this case is specifically about whether or not Comey lied about leaking information that would -- what seems to have taken place during 2016-2017, having nothing to do with Joe Biden. But let me ask you a question, because you talked about the weaponization of the Justice Department during Biden. Can you -- because this is something conservatives bring up a lot. And I understand there was a special counsel investigating Trump and there were cases in New York and all that. But can you explain how the special counsel investigating Hunter Biden during the Biden presidency, which resulted in a criminal conviction, and the special counsel investigating into President Biden himself during the Biden presidency, which resulted in this incredibly damaging Hur report, how did those investigations fit into the theory that the Biden era was one of Democrats weaponizing the Justice Department? Because they were also going after the Democratic presidents and his Democratic son.
JOHNSON: They were not going after the president and his family. They did the bare minimum that they had to do to maintain the label on the door at the Department of Justice. OK, look, everyone knows this. This is not even a matter of dispute.
TAPPER: Hunter was going to go to jail.
JOHNSON: They went after President Trump even when he was not president. Well, they went after President Trump criminally, civilly. They tried to just ruin him, destroy him because they didn't want to run for president again. I mean, there are volumes written about this, Jake. And you and I both know that that's true. And there will be a lot of accountability, I hope, in the future to ensure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again. Comey has been on a tirade against Trump since way back then, since 2016-2017. Remember, he famously walked on the beach and put 8647, implying that President Trump should be should be exterminated, effectively, OK? It was a big controversy several months back, right? He has shown his bias. And they have used the Department of Justice against him. Remember all the former intel officials who signed the letter saying that the phony Russian dossier was real. I mean, everybody knows this. We don't have to relitigate it this morning. The point is, the Department of Justice currently is doing what the Department of Justice should do. And they have to hold people accountable. We have to ensure that the rule of law applies to everyone. hand that's exactly what's happening here.
TAPPER: Does the rule of law have to apply to people who stormed the Capitol on January 6?
JOHNSON: Well, I'm glad you brought that up. There's new information over the last couple of days about that as well. Apparently, there were 274 FBI agents in the crowd on January 6.
TAPPER: No, no, no. That's Kash Patel...
JOHNSON: I think the total number of persons involved...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: No, Kash Patel just brought some enhancement -- enhanced understanding to that. They were sent there to do crowd control because of everything that was going on. They weren't -- it wasn't a false flag operation, as President Trump suggested.
JOHNSON: Well, Jake, wait a minute. Hold on, Jake. How do you know that? There's a lot of questions...
TAPPER: I'm just going by what Kash Patel said.
JOHNSON: ... brand-new questions about -- well, and I'm telling you that there's videos, and it's always been disputed, what involvement some of those persons engaged in, what involvement they had? Did they spur on the crowd? Did they open the gates to allow them in? I don't know. These are questions. But they should be answered. And, yes, there's a lot of investigation and discovery to go forward. We have a select subcommittee, bipartisan, a committee that is reviewing the investigation of the original J6 Committee, I mean, a committee investigating the previous committee. Why? Because there was so much bias in the system. And that committee was rigged, I think, and I think they -- my theory is, I have always believed that they got rid of evidence and they hid some of this. So all of it's going to come out. The American people deserve full transparency.
TAPPER: Full transparency, 100 percent.
JOHNSON: And that's what Congress is working on, and that's what the administration is working on. Yes. Yes. And we will find out.
TAPPER: I'm always in favor of full transparency, including for the Epstein files, which that will probably come on the floor of the House soon.
JOHNSON: Me too.
TAPPER: And we will have lots of discussions about that.
Speaker Johnson, always good to have you here. Thank you so much, sir.
JOHNSON: Thanks, Jake. Appreciate it.
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