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WATCH: Howard Lutnick Shares What It’s Really Like Behind The Scenes With President Trump
One year ago, when President Trump was first assembling his Cabinet and we were first meeting all of his top picks, I brought you a five part series of interviews conducted by the All-In podcast which did a truly fantastic job of doing long sit-down interviews with all the top picks and really showing us who these people were.
I was so impressed I turned it into a five-part series starting with Howard Lutnick and I said at the time this is NOT a repeat of the Trump 1.0 Administration.
There are no Mike Pences here.
These are just trained killers in business, ready to work for the American people.
Here was the first in the five-part series:
If You Have ANY Doubt About ANYTHING In The Trump Administration, Watch This Right Now…
Now one year later, more progress has been made than even I expected, and Howard Lutnick returned to the All-In podcast to sit down for a one-on-one interview with Chamath Palihapitiya, a venture capitalist and very successful entrepreneur in his own right, for a fascinating follow up conversation.
He told story after story of what it's like being in the room with President Trump, giving many behind-the-scenes looks into several iconic moments of the last year.
The stories are fascinating and often hilarious, like the time Howard fell asleep on the couch because he'd been up for 20-hours on that trip to Alaska to meet with Putin. Meanwhile, Trump and Marco Rubio and Steve Wickoff are on a secure call with Zelesnky, and in the middle of the call President Trump unrolls a tootsie roll and throws it at Howard, waking him up, and Trump jokes with him saying "Howard, while you're napping, we're trying to settle world peace!"
This all happens live on the call with Zelensky, no doubt with mics muted.
Hilarious!
It just shows the humanity of this Administration....All stone cold killers in business, at the highest possible ranks of success, and of them putting that aside to fall asleep on a couch after a 20-hour day and then joking around with each other while also trying to literally save the world.
They're basically just like you or me with our best buddies, but they're also trying to save the world and save America along the way.
In addition to all the stories, he also explains how President Trump THINKS and the stunning rate at which he processes information. Also he specifically calls out President Trump's intuition as the best he's ever seen in anyone.
Our President is truly a "monogenes"!
And if you don't know what that means, read this:
“Monogenes”: Has The Most Famous Bible Verse Of All Time Been Translated Wrong All This Time?
Ok, now on with the interview.
I enjoyed ever minute of this and I think you will too.
And to the fellas over at All-In, well done! Especially to Chamath on this one, perfect interview! Keep them coming please!
Watch here:
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Howard Lutnick
What was the feeling the first time you were on Air Force One?
Or Marine One—like, is there a special thing where you're just like,
“What is going on?” Like, are—yeah, yeah. When you're on these things,
like, it's amazing. Yeah, right. You're where real conversations happen.
We went to see Putin. So I get on Air Force One at 5:00 a.m.
He gets on at 5:45. We fly to Alaska. Alaska, right? Okay. Right.
So we're talking, and then we're there for four hours with Putin,
and then we fly back. Now, Marco Rubio and Steve Witkoff go take a nap
because we have to wait for Zelenskyy to wake up to call Zelenskyy,
and we have to wait for the European leaders to wake up, right?
Because it's the middle of the night.
So I stay up with the president and we're just chatting.
Like, we're just chatting, watching golf. I mean, it's a lot of hours.
Yeah. So then Zelenskyy wakes up. They get on the phone with Zelenskyy,
and he talks to Zelenskyy on his phone.
Then when he calls the European leaders, when they get up,
they want to have us-only secure calls. So there are three secure handsets
in his office. He's on one, Rubio's on one, and Witkoff's on one.
And I'm just sitting on the couch. This is in Air Force One.
In Air Force One, in his office. So I'm just sitting on the couch,
and I've been up for like 20 hours, okay?
And the president's been up for 20 hours.
But he's on the phone, and the European leaders are talking.
So I'm just sitting there, and they're all on handsets,
so I can't hear a word that anybody's saying.
And I'm just sitting there. So I fall asleep. Okay.
So I'm just sitting there, they're talking on the phone right there,
and I fall asleep like this. So I'm like that.
So Witkoff elbows the president, right? Points to me.
And then the president unrolls a Tootsie Roll
and tries to throw it into my mouth.
He hits me in the face. I wake up.
He goes, “Howard, while you're napping, we're trying to settle world peace.”
That’s awesome.
Chamath Palihapitiya
Well, welcome everybody to the All-In interview.
I'd like to welcome Secretary Howard Lutnick,
our esteemed Secretary of Commerce.
When we did the first interview with you, it was at the beginning
of the administration. It was almost a year ago.
And to be honest, it turned out to be one of the most popular things
we've ever done.
There's the Elon Musk view factor,
but then there was the Howard Lutnick view factor,
and they were pretty much side by side.
It's great that you gave us a chance a year later to come back
and talk to you. Let's just start with a general look back for you.
How has the year gone? And specifically, I'd love to understand
what surprised you as a businessman walking into the government.
Howard Lutnick
Overall, you know, I have a goal,
which is I want to be the cabinet secretary who has the most fun.
So I set out with that goal.
And which means I am outcome-driven, right?
I don't really buy into “I worked really hard and it failed.”
If I worked really hard and it failed, it's a fail.
If I got lucky and it all fell into place and I did nothing,
it's still success. Because outcomes are what matter.
You're not telling people how hard you worked and failed.
So how you get things done in government is fascinating.
It's just different. Most people who've ever been in government
tend to be incremental.
They come in, they say, “How did this work?”
Someone explains how it worked,
and they try to move the ball 10% forward.
They don't really rethink it entirely.
So my objective was to come into this department—
which is an awesome, incredibly diverse department—
and really think through its powers and possibilities,
reimagine them, rethink them, hire people,
and then mold those people to think outside the box.
The first three months were really about getting people to think,
“Can I really challenge this? Can I really do this?”
And then convincing everyone around me
that this is an okay way to do it.
The way it was done yesterday isn't right.
It was just what they did yesterday.
You're not even saying it's wrong—you're saying it's not you.
Chamath Palihapitiya
Do you get the organ rejection, though, of career bureaucrats who think,
“Wait a minute, Howard's out for my job,”
or “This is a totally different way of doing things.
I don't feel comfortable with this”?
We hear a lot about this so-called deep state,
career lifers who push back on radical change.
Howard Lutnick
Well, look, in the beginning we cut about 20%.
I walked in the door with 52,000 people in this department,
and now there are 40,000 people.
If you're going to cut 12,000 people, you have to do it fast
so everybody understands the next shoe is not dropping tomorrow.
We found programs started in 1978 and asked,
“Why are we doing this now?”
We had advanced manufacturing programs started in 1986—
what were they doing as advanced manufacturing 40 years ago
versus now?
So we did that quickly. Then I met every bureau,
held town halls, went to offices,
and told them where we were going, what we were doing, and why.
What I learned is government people are narrow experts.
They’re amazing at their specific topic.
There are no generalists—just deep specialists.
Your job as secretary is to weave that blanket together
so these specialists succeed.
When you give them tasks that maximize their capacity, they get jazzed.
I'm getting amazing output from this department
because they're jazzed—someone appreciates their capacity
and drives it to success.
Chamath Palihapitiya
It might be useful for the audience if you gave an overview
of the scope of the Commerce Department,
because it’s incredibly vast.
Howard Lutnick
Tariffs—there are two types.
General tariffs are in front of the Supreme Court.
Sector-specific tariffs are handled in this building, through BIS,
the Bureau of Industry and Security.
That includes export controls.
We don’t want to sell our best chips to adversaries.
They have guns and badges, by the way.
They control auto tariffs, steel tariffs, pharmaceuticals—
which has been insanely successful at driving prices down.
Then you have ITA, which advocates for business.
We help companies sell things around the world.
We help states bring in business to build and grow here.
We help companies with permits, whatever they need
to grow American jobs.
Then NTIA—telecommunications, spectrum, 6G.
Inside that, the Center for AI Advancement.
When a model like DeepSeek comes out, we study it deeply
and publish real comparisons—not hype.
We publish GDP. We use the Census,
automated through APIs.
And yes, we put GDP on the blockchain. Why not?
We have the Patent Office—intellectual property matters.
We have NOAA—oceans, atmosphere, space commerce.
I moved space commerce into my office
to rethink commercial satellites.
Chamath Palihapitiya
Let’s go back to tariffs.
Bring us into the room leading into April 2nd.
Howard Lutnick
Donald Trump has talked about tariffs for decades.
He believes the trade deficit is a ripoff of America.
People say, “You have a trade deficit with the supermarket.”
That’s silly. Imagine two islands: one invents, one produces.
The producer eventually owns the inventor.
In 1985, we owned $148 billion more of the world than they owned of us.
By 2024, they owned $26 trillion more of us than we owned of them.
We became employees of the producers of what we invented.
So Trump says, “We’re getting ripped off. We need to fix it.”
Balance means owning at least as much of them
as they own of us. That’s the north star.
Countries say, “Don’t tariff us—we’ll invest.”
I say, “You’re buying us.”
Build it here, sell it here—or pay for the privilege.
Chamath Palihapitiya
How did you set the rates?
Howard Lutnick
The debate was universal tariffs versus country-specific tariffs.
Universal is easy. Country-specific is harder but smarter.
He couldn’t do it in his first term—
he didn’t have believers around him.
This time, he did.
Howard Lutnick
Japan was fascinating.
94% of cars in Japan are Japanese.
So we said, “25% tariff.”
They said they couldn’t do it.
Their system relies on government-subsidized suppliers
that can’t relocate.
So we negotiated down to 15%.
Then came the $550 billion financing deal.
Japan funds American projects—nuclear, infrastructure.
They’re the LP, we’re the GP.
They get paid back with interest.
After that, profits are split 90% to America, 10% to Japan.
Japan breaks even. America makes $650 billion.
That money goes to Treasury.
It reduces deficits and taxes.
Howard Lutnick
Pharmaceuticals—America pays for the world.
We pay $1,000; Europe pays $175.
Trump demanded MFN pricing—most favored nation.
Same price for us as everyone else.
I had 232 tariffs.
I was the hammer.
The result?
Drugs like Ozempic and Mounjaro on Medicare for $149.
Some companies gave drugs for free.
We saved $25–35 billion a year.
More importantly, drugs became accessible.
Howard Lutnick
Immigration—open borders worked when America gave nothing.
You can’t have open borders with a welfare state.
The Trump Card requires proving benefit to America.
Pay $1 million, get vetted, contribute.
We sold over a billion dollars’ worth in the first week.
Howard Lutnick
On fraud—we’re going after it.
Trillion dollars a year.
Commerce, HHS, Treasury working together.
We’ll use technology to match data and find abuse.
This will be big.
Howard Lutnick
GDP—this year, we hit 4.3%.
Shutdowns distort GDP.
Next year, you’ll see fives.
With rate cuts, sixes.
Six percent GDP on a $30 trillion economy
is $1.5 trillion in growth.
That’s jobs, wages, opportunity.
That’s not inflation—that’s growth.
Howard Lutnick
CHIPS Act—Biden gave handouts.
Trump said, “I’ll tariff you 100%.”
TSMC expanded from $60 billion to $165 billion.
No giveaways—leverage.
Nvidia—Jensen Huang made his case.
Trump said, “Fine—but give me 25%.”
We test chips here, license exports, collect tariffs.
Howard Lutnick
We can fix Social Security without taking anything away.
Use outside money—tariffs, equity stakes, fraud recovery.
We’re the richest country in the world.
If we run it smart, we can do it all.
That’s why this job is fun.
I’m in the room where it happens.
Chamath Palihapitiya
Final question—from Brandon L in New York:
“Who is your favorite child?”
Howard Lutnick
I have four kids.
My son Brandon used to sign birthday cards,
“Your fourth favorite.”
Whenever another kid messed up,
he’d run in yelling “Third!” and run out.
I have the best wife—31 years married.
Great kids. Close family.
I go where my kids want to go on vacation
because I want them with me.
I was successful in business.
I divested everything to serve.
Donald Trump understands business.
This cabinet is impressive.
You’re going to see great things in year two.
Chamath Palihapitiya
Howard Lutnick, thank you for joining All-In.
Howard Lutnick
Thank you.